Media Metadata Is a Signal to Detect Real From Fake
Episode Summary
Allan McLennan, founder and chief executive of PADEM Media Group, calls metadata the lifeblood of everything in entertainment, because every moment created or shared carries a tag. Without those tags nothing establishes that a piece of content is the studio’s, the producer’s or the creative’s, or tracks the alteration that makes a new version and potentially puts its copyright at risk. The same tags carry the second half of the conversation, an IBC Accelerator project he proposed and lists himself among the champions of, alongside CBS News, BBC News, Al Jazeera News and ITN, all working on identifying fake news at a volume he puts at 34 million stories a day. His account of where that leaves a viewer is the sharpest thing he says: the first question now, whether you voice it or not, is whether the thing in front of you is real.
Key takeaways
About Allan McLennan
Allan McLennan is founder and chief executive of PADEM Media Group, and a longtime media and entertainment executive who has worked across many parts of the industry, including as an analyst. That analyst framing is where he starts on this episode: generative AI in media comes down to economic and production efficiencies, and the industry is taking layoffs now against improvements he says do not really happen right away but come down the road. From there he moves to the two subjects that fill the middle of the episode. The first is metadata, which he calls the lifeblood of everything in the entertainment industry and the only way to establish that a piece of content is yours. The second is identifying fake content: he proposed an IBC Accelerator project and counts himself among its champions alongside CBS News, BBC News, Al Jazeera News and ITN.
In this episode
| 00:58 | Welcome, and who Allan McLennan is |
| 01:34 | A longtime media and entertainment executive, and an analyst |
| 01:45 | The opening question: an analyst’s view of generative AI in the industry |
| 01:57 | Economic efficiencies and production efficiencies |
| 02:51 | Layoffs now, against improvements that arrive later |
| 03:22 | AI is good and great, and what about the livelihoods |
| 03:39 | Brian Lakamp at Paramount Global, and studios as content creation companies |
| 04:18 | More content is the need, and what the SAG-AFTRA strike did to the pipeline |
| 04:37 | Lowering debt and lowering expenses across the industry |
| 05:02 | Studios as production facilities, live programming, and the vast libraries |
| 05:47 | Creating content while cutting the expenses that drive it |
| 06:17 | Metadata as a cost factor and as a way to commercialize content |
| 06:33 | Metadata is the lifeblood, and every moment carries a tag |
| 06:46 | What generative AI does with the tags |
| 07:42 | The only way to recognize that content is yours |
| 08:11 | Alter it in any way and it becomes a new version |
| 08:40 | Identifying fake content, and whether it relies on metadata |
| 09:07 | IBC, and the idea he came up with |
| 09:28 | Why news is the number one revenue generator |
| 09:53 | Alerting an editorial team that a story may be faked |
| 10:17 | The champions, and his figure of 34 million fake news stories a day |
| 10:55 | Mapping and verification, the Nordics, and C2PA |
| 11:52 | Not one product but a unified effort, and the question is it real |
| 12:29 | Is it true, the gating point, and the US elections |
| 13:21 | Whether generative AI is used to find the fakes |
| 13:36 | The vendors’ platforms, and visual mapping of the entities |
| 14:29 | The AI Realized panel with Megan Mauck, Brian Lakamp and Blake Bassett |
| 14:39 | Personalization, and what generative AI actually adds to it |
| 15:12 | Free ad-supported television, and where it stands today |
| 15:31 | Segmenting programming for ad insertion, and the anger that goes with it |
| 15:59 | Six commercials, sometimes eight, and the audience that leaves |
| 16:22 | Understanding the viewer by content and by purchase behavior |
| 16:55 | What the industry knows through the credit card associations |
| 17:29 | Matching the commercial to the viewer, and what it is worth |
| 18:07 | Zip code registries, and what has changed since |
| 18:35 | Fewer ads in the break, because they are targeted |
| 19:07 | Generative AI assimilating it for measurement and distribution |
| 19:33 | Take a breath, and do not hyperventilate about falling behind |
| 19:55 | Do not stick your head in the sand, and where the problem really is |
| 21:05 | Not a favorite, but the fellow from AI Realized, and the name he is reaching for |
| 21:21 | Paul Baier, and why figuring it out in public is more impactful |
| 22:00 | The daily email, the learning labs and the HBR articles |
| 22:43 | Substack, and the Ankler for media and entertainment |
| 23:20 | Close |
In Allan’s words
“metadata is the lifeblood of everything”
Allan McLennan (06:33)
“The only way that you can actually recognize it that it’s yours, that it’s the studio’s, that it’s the producer’s, it’s the creative, is through the metadata”
Allan McLennan (07:42)
“any time that any piece of content is altered in any way, shape, or form, it becomes a new version”
Allan McLennan (08:11)
“it isn’t just one product that will solve this. It’s a unified effort of different products that weave together”
Allan McLennan (11:52)
“whether you say it or not, your first thought now, sadly, is, is it real?”
Allan McLennan (11:52)
“there’s comfortably a 38 to 40% greater chance that that viewer will find that engaging”
Allan McLennan (17:29)
“don’t hyperventilate on feeling that you’re missing something and that you’re falling behind, because you’re not”
Allan McLennan (19:33)
“don’t stick your head in the sand, and understand that the more that you know how to better utilize this tool, the better you’re going to be moving forward”
Allan McLennan (19:55)
Resources
Allan McLennan on LinkedIn: His LinkedIn profile
PADEM Media Group: The media and entertainment advisory company where he is founder and chief executive
Named or described on air, with links
C2PA: The Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity, the alliance he describes at 10:55 as an organization Microsoft and Adobe are putting together to verify content. It was founded in February 2021 and its founding members include both of them
Design Your Weapons in the Fight Against Disinformation: The IBC 2024 Accelerator project he describes from 09:07, on news organizations collaborating to identify disinformation and authenticate genuine reporting
GAI Insights: The firm behind the person he recommends at 21:21. The host names it at 21:18 and describes its daily email and its learning labs, which are what make the recommendation a practical one
Paul Baier on LinkedIn: The person he recommends, chief executive and co-founder of GAI Insights, and the guest on episode 2 of this podcast
The Ankler: The publication he calls the de facto one for media and entertainment at 22:43, spelling it out letter by letter. He describes it as a Substack, which it was at the time
AI Realized Summit speakers: Where the panel he refers to at 05:02 and 14:29 took place, with Megan Mauck, Brian Lakamp and Blake Bassett
Named on air
CBS News, BBC News, Al Jazeera News and ITN: The four news organizations he names at 10:17 as champions of the accelerator project alongside himself, saying up to twenty broadcasters and networks worldwide are behind the effort
Microsoft and Adobe: The two companies he credits at 10:55 with putting the content verification alliance together
SAG-AFTRA: The strike he says at 04:18 crippled the industry by reducing the content pipeline by two-thirds
Brian Lakamp: Formerly EVP, Media Supply Chain at Paramount Global. The host recalls his argument at 03:39 that studios are content creation companies that make more content as they get more efficient. Allan McLennan says at 04:37 that he knows Lakamp well, and at 05:02 that the argument is absolutely correct
Megan Mauck and Blake Bassett: The two other panelists he names at 14:29 from the AI Realized panel, senior vice president of media operations at NBCUniversal and vice president of product for emerging tech at Tubi
Tubi and Pluto: The two free ad-supported platforms he names at 15:59 when describing four-minute commercial breaks
Substack: The platform he recommends at 22:43 for writers covering this subject matter daily
Published since this conversation
Stamping Your Content, C2PA Provenance: The IBC 2025 Accelerator project, which IBC says builds on the 2024 disinformation project. It is the continuation he predicts at 13:01, and it is organized around the C2PA standard he names at 10:55
Ideas and terms discussed
Metadata as the lifeblood: The claim he returns to throughout the conversation. Every moment created or shared carries a tag, and the tags are what make ownership recognizable at all
A new version: The copyright consequence he raises. Altering content in any way makes a new version, and a new version potentially puts the copyright at risk
Perceived economic improvements: His phrase for the gap the industry is currently living in, between layoffs taken now and efficiencies expected at the back end
FAST: Free advertising supported television, the streaming format he uses to explain what targeted advertising would change
The gating point: His term for where a viewer now stands, asking whether what they are watching is real before they engage with it
Take a breath: His own number one, and the thing he says before anything about tools
Frequently Asked Questions
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A piece of content has no owner an automated system can read except through its metadata, which is why it sits at the center of how media and entertainment companies protect what they own. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group calls metadata the lifeblood of everything in the industry and says every moment that is created or shared has a tag attached to it. Strip the tags and nothing establishes that a piece of work belongs to the studio, the producer or the creative, and nothing tracks what has been done to it since.
Transcript 06:17 to 08:40
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Generative AI reads the metadata tags already attached to a piece of content and assimilates them into whatever end result is being produced. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group describes that as exactly what generative AI does: tap into every one of the tags that are part of the metadata and turn them into the thing somebody wants to create. The same tags do a second job at the same time, which is securing what is verified about the creator and the distributor.
Transcript 06:17 to 08:11
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Altering a piece of content in any way, shape or form creates a new version, and creating a new version potentially puts the copyright of that material at risk. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group says the industry is very aware of this, and that the only way to track which version is which is through the metadata.
Transcript 08:11 to 08:40
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Identifying fake news at the volume broadcasters now face takes a mapping and verification process run across the industry rather than inside any one newsroom, because it is far past what human editors can reach. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group describes an IBC Accelerator project he came up with the idea for, and lists its champions as himself, CBS News, BBC News, Al Jazeera News, ITN and up to twenty broadcasters worldwide, working with organizations he says were predominantly out of the Nordics. His figure for the scale of the problem is 34 million fake news stories a day.
Transcript 08:40 to 11:52
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C2PA is the Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity, a cross-industry alliance whose work is verifying content. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group describes it on air as an organization Microsoft and Adobe are putting together that really focuses on verifying content, and names it as the consortium the disinformation work runs alongside. He pairs it with his conclusion about the shape of any answer: no single product solves this, and it takes a unified effort of different products that weave together.
Transcript 10:55 to 12:29
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Targeted advertising should mean fewer ads in each break rather than more, because two well-matched commercials can do the work that six or eight untargeted ones are doing now. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group says free ad-supported platforms currently present the format as somewhere to put six commercials and sometimes eight, which runs to four-minute breaks on some offerings, and that audiences used to uninterrupted long-form content leave. His alternative is to match each commercial to what the person watching actually buys.
Transcript 15:12 to 19:07
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Streaming and broadcast advertising now runs on purchase data as well as viewing data, and the link is the credit card associations. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group says the industry has reached the point of knowing what a viewer bought, where they bought it and how much they spent on it, and that putting it together with what the viewer watches is what lets a commercial be moderated and inserted into the stream for the person most likely to want it. His figure for the difference it makes is comfortably a 38 to 40 percent greater chance the viewer engages with it.
Transcript 16:22 to 18:07
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Media and entertainment companies are cutting jobs now for savings that are not yet in hand. Allan McLennan of PADEM Media Group describes a considerable amount of layoffs and a considerable amount of impact on livelihoods, taken on the thought that it will be picked up at the back end with the efficiencies of AI, which he says does not really happen right away, and he asks what that means for the disciplines that got the industry to this point. He is not negative on the economics and says so directly: what he is describing is the economics of the studios, where more content is genuinely the need, because in his account the SAG-AFTRA strike reduced the pipeline by two-thirds.
Transcript 01:34 to 06:17
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[00:58] Christina Ellwood: Welcome to the next episode of AI Realized, the podcast for enterprise executives leading AI deployments. From addressing security, data, and operations challenges to managing organizational and management changes, AI deployments present the opportunity to redesign our organizations from the inside out. In this episode, we will talk about what’s new now and next with Allan McLennan, the founder and chief executive of PADEM Media Group. Allan, welcome to AI Realized.
[01:31] Allan McLennan: Thank you. Thank you, Christina.
[01:34] Christina Ellwood: Allan, you’re a, a longtime media and entertainment executive, and you have worked in many aspects of the industry, including being an analyst. I’m interested in, as an analyst, what your top level views are about the impact and the potential of generative AI for the industry.
[01:57] Allan McLennan: Well, when it comes down to an, uh, from an analyst perspective, this really comes, uh, down to efficiencies and how AI can help, uh, create better economic efficiencies and production effici-efficiencies going forward. That has been a massive in, um, uptake within the industry as a whole, trying to leverage that to, um, improve, um, different types of projects and those different types of products moving things forward. Um, that said, um, th-that has also been one of the crippling, uh, things that have been happening within the industry as a whole, because once you move into the economic efficiencies of an AI-enhanced environment, you start looking at perceived economic improvements, and from that perceived economic improvements, it doesn’t really happen right away, it’s down the road. So we’re also going into a period of time when there’s a, um, a considerable amount of layoffs, a considerable amount of impact of individuals’ and people’s livelihoods, all on the thought that it’s going to be picked up in the back end with the efficiencies of AI. So we’re right at a moment of evolutionary issues that are coming into play, and that is taking center stage when it comes to an, um, from an analyst standpoint. AI is good and great. But what really is the impact when it comes to most livelihoods that are reliant on the different executions and disciplines that have gotten the industry to this point in time?
[03:39] Christina Ellwood: Well, I remember hearing Brian Lakamp’s, um, presentat- the, of, of, uh, Paramount, uh, Global, um, uh, his presentation at South by Southwest, uh, uh, recently, and his, uh, take was that, uh, co- um, studios are content creation companies, and when you give them the ability to do, uh, to become more efficient, they create more content. So he sees it as a way to have a, a, a increase in the volume of product rather than a way to decrease the labor, um, and lay people off. Do you, do you subscribe to that perspective, or do you think it’s a combination?
[04:18] Allan McLennan: Well, it’s, it’s the same thing really. Um, there, the ability to create more content is really the underlying need that’s currently in the marketplace because the SAG-AFTRA strike really crippled the overall industry as a whole by reducing the pipeline by two-thirds, so there’s just not that much. And yes, the, the broadca- the companies as a... You know, I know Brian well, as you know. Um, and when it comes to Paramount, he’s no, he’s one of those that is no longer in a position. He’s, you know, he, his experience is exactly that, that there’s, there’s a refinement, um, of lowering debt and lowering expenses that are, um, going forward in the industry as a whole. But he is absolutely correct that the studios in themselves are production fac- so they create content, they create programming that we watch and see, as well as, um, the broadcasters in their live programming, which is the number one area for generation of activity and need for more efficiencies. Um, broadcast of, of, but let’s not forget. What the studios have are vast libraries of content that they intersperse that content into the new content, and that comes into what I was mentioning before and during our panel at AI Realized, is the impact of AI on, uh, localization, languages, uh, dubbing, that kind of shaping. It’s all around the same thing Brian said, is yes, it is to create new content, but that content creation is now coming into the realm of cutting expenses that drive that content creation. So there, there is that component of it. I’m not negative on it, please don’t take me wrong on that. That’s just, that’s just the efficiencies of the, uh, economics of the studios as a whole.
[06:17] Christina Ellwood: So metadata’s a really important, uh, c- both cost factor and an important, um, element in, uh, commercializing content. Can you talk a bit about how generative AI is impacting metadata and the use of metadata?
[06:33] Allan McLennan: Um, well, metadata is the lifeblood of everything, uh, in the entertainment industry. Um, every moment that is being created or shared has a metadata tag that’s attached to it. And so without metadata, um, you really don’t know where you’re going or what you’re doing, what you’re hearing. It’s, it’s just really key. And so way generative AI is able to assist on that is exactly what generative AI does, and that is it is able to tap into every one of those tags that are currently a pro- that are a process of the metadata, and are able then to take that and then assimilate that into whatever end result that you may want to create and may want to be able to provide. Um, you know, l- l- let’s, let’s just face it, you know, one of the things that, you know, truly, um, exists within the overall industry is, you know, anybody can do this, anybody can create it, anybody can copy it, anybody can, uh, can attach their, um, um, premise for creation to any piece of content, whatever it might be. The only way that you can actually recognize it that it’s yours, that it’s the studio’s, that it’s the producer’s, it’s the creative, is through the metadata. And the metadata not only assists generative AI in what is created, it also secures the, the content and what is right and what is verified as far as the creator and the distributor of the content. Um, I w- I wanna just wanna say one thing, is that when it comes to that, any time that any piece of content is altered in any way, shape, or form, it becomes a new version. And this is what we’re very aware of within the industry, because when you create a new version, you potentially put at risk your copyright of that material. And the only way that you can track that is through metadata.
[08:40] Christina Ellwood: I see. Okay. So it’s a, it’s a formative, um, uh, tool for managing this h- very critical, uh, data set. Now, when it comes to fake content and identifying fake content, I know you’ve done some work recently at a IBC Accelerator around developing a POC of a product that can identify fakes. Does that, uh, rely on metadata for that identification?
[09:07] Allan McLennan: Heavily. Heavily relies on all of that. And, and l- I’ll just give a quick, uh, precursor on what we’re talking about here. IBC, the International Broadcasting Conference in A- Amsterdam every year, um, puts together about s- six to eight different kinds of projects that are challenging towards the industry for what is perceived the coming year. I was fortunate enough to n- this last year to come up with an idea that said basically, “How can we all get along and identify what’s fake and what’s real?” You know, news is the number one revenue generator for all the broadcasters, for all the networks. So being first out with news, being, you know, the one with the breaking story to gain viewerships is the underpinnings of the entire, uh, category. So to get everybody to work together on trying to solve this issue and then alert, um, their, their editorial staff to-- that this potentially is faked and it came from another network, you know, giving them the heads-up, was really what we were starting to work on in year one of this pro- of this accelerator project. The good news on that accelerator project is with the champions as myself, CBS News, um, BBC News, Al Jazeera News, um, ITN, um, um, which does six broadcasts of news in, in, um, uh, in the UK, um, and multiple more, up to 20 different, um, broadcasters and broadcast networks around the world are all behind this effort of trying to, to work together on addressing the 34 million fake news stories every day that’s out in the marketplace. Something that cannot remotely be touched by the human editor or the human teams. It has to be identified through a mapping process, a verification process. That is part of the initial product. And the initial product then was looking and working with organizations, companies around the world, interestingly predominantly out of the Nordics, you know, for whatever reason, that had very good h- uh, very good handles on how to identify fakes. And this is in consortium with another alliance within the overall industry called C2PM, um, excuse me, C2PA, uh, which is an organization that Microsoft and Adobe are putting together that, that, um, really focuses on verifying content. And when you, when you put all of this together, it isn’t just one product that will solve this. It’s a unified effort of different products that weave together to better manage this issue when it comes to fake representation. It is everywhere, Christina. It’s astounding. The biggest questions that exist right now that we have as a society, interestingly enough, when we watch something, whether you say it or not, your first thought now, sadly, is, is it real? Is it true? Then you, then you watch it, then you engage with it. And that’s the gating point that we are today in the marketplace that we’re, we’re at. And as we know, w- through the US elections, we have had-- it’s been rampant out in the marketplace of deepfakes and misrepresentations and disinformation. So yes, um, the IBC Accelerator groups really are heavily focusing on this, and we’ve been fortunate enough to be identified as taking this to the next level this coming year. So there’s gonna be even more information that we’re now gonna, um, all collaborate in, in looking at how to better solve this. And this time next year, there will be an overall recommendation of how to do it.
[13:21] Christina Ellwood: So generative AI was used to create a lot of those fakes. Are you using generative AI in this initiative to identify them and flag them and, and, uh, to, you know, let, uh, broadcasters know when they may be dealing with fake information?
[13:36] Allan McLennan: The, the vendors that have the software platforms that are currently, that are currently being, um, integrated into this overall solution is-- do use generative AI in their problem-solving, yes, in their visual mapping of the different entities. It is, it is a v- it’s a very key component. Like what I said before, it’s like there’s 30... Just as an example, there’s 34 million deepfakes a day. There’s no way anybody could possibly address that without being able to have some sort of technical, um, assistance. And so yes, it’s a very big component of what we’re doing.
[14:11] Christina Ellwood: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that makes a lot of, uh, good sense. What other exciting things are you involved in that use any form of AI, generative AI or otherwise, um, that you feel are, are game-changing for the media and entertainment space?
[14:29] Allan McLennan: Well, we had that conversation on, at AI Realized in the panel with Megan Mauck and, uh, Brian Lakamp, as well as Blake, um, Bassett. And, you know, all of that is coming into how you can best manage content and how you can make content readily available for viewing audiences, which comes down to personalization of content. That I’m finding to be very exciting. Now, personalization of content’s been around for decades, but now with generative AI, we’re actually being able to, on an ongoing basis you know, see that viewer’s interests on any given moment, and that the provider can serve up that content that they have interest in, and that will fit well. Now, one of the more interesting things is as the industry as a whole, that I’m excited about, um, it’s just moving towards this, of course, it’s nothing new when it comes to commercially supported television. But within the streaming worlds, it’s all about f- uh, free as- free advertising supported television, FAST. And so in there is the, um, you know, allowing for th- the segmenting of programming into areas that commercials can be then inserted. Now, where that stands today is just wherever they wanna traffic that content in, and that’s nothing really different than in years past, and also the anger that goes along with it. It’s like people have gotten used to watching long-form content without kind of interruption. So the current, um, FAST platforms are having challenges 'cause they’re presenting it as this kind of information that they can put six commercials in, sometimes eight. That’s four-minute breaks, like within these offerings from Tubi to, to Pluto. Not all of them, but, but some are that long that they put into it, whereas in fact you lose audience when it comes down. There is a new technology that is being, um, RMT, that’s being developed within a couple different, um, alliances, shall we say, within the advertising community, um, and the broadcasters that have identified that if, if you can understand what the viewer likes, not only from their content, but also from what their purchase behaviors are... Yes, we’ve got to that point where that viewer, the industry knows what they bought, where they bought it, how much they spent on it through the associations with the credit card companies. So all of that’s now coming into play from understanding that viewer. Now, when you’re able to take that same content, that same advertising content and moderate that content to a point where, hey, that commercial fits that viewer. Boom. That commercial can be then inserted into that stream, and there’s comfortably a 38 to 40% greater chance that that viewer will find that engaging and will embrace it to the potential of purchasing it, and they will stay with it and not leave the program. And so I believe what we’re starting-- we’ll start to see is this evolution of, and shall I say it, uh, in-intelligent commercials that, that will, that you’re... Now, we, we’ve had it for a long time. We’ve had it on our zip code registries and watching cable companies, and they’ve been inserting content into your demographics for a long period of time. But now that the viewer has gotten used to having long-form content without interruptions, you’ve gotta figure out how to best have them engage with and embrace the advertising that they’re seeing if they choose to watch them, um, during the breaks. That’s really interesting. If you can start understanding that person’s behavior and interest enough that you can associate two ad- two pieces of advertising that can be compelling to that person enough to, to 40%, let’s just say 50% of the time buying that commercial, you reduce the number of ads that have to be in that break 'cause you’re now targeting commercials for exact behavior and interest. That’s a big change. That’s generative AI in assimilating all that information and bringing it to a particular point from a measurement and a distribution standpoint.
[19:17] Christina Ellwood: I see. Okay, so you’re forecasting that we are gonna have better identification of fake news, and we’re gonna have ads that are not so annoying because they’re actually things that we’re interested in, in our streaming, ad-supported streaming content. Is that correct? Yeah.
[19:33] Allan McLennan: Well, number one, take a breath. Um, you know, don’t hyperventilate on feeling that you’re missing something and that you’re falling behind, because you’re not. The industry is moving very fast, it’s true. Uh, but those are new ways of identifying and trying to apply new solutions to, not so much be correct solutions. So at this time, really take your time, be open, start learning. More importantly, don’t stick your head in the sand, and understand that the more that you know how to better utilize this tool, the better you’re going to be moving forward. It’s not a problem with the tool itself you have right now. It’s the problem is the person that knows more about it than you do. You know? And so the more that you understand how things work and interact, the better you’re going to be in a position to be able to counsel, to be able to guide, and m- better yet, be able to lead in the needs that you have within your companies and within your community
[20:36] Christina Ellwood: Okay. Well, thank you. Um, if, um, you-- I would-- I’d love to give you a chance to leave our listeners with your thoughts about the things that they should be, uh, alert to and things that they should be looking into to learn more about in the coming months. As a- AI changes so rapidly, there’s so much going on. What would you guide people to do to stay on top of the changes and be alert to, um, new innovations?
[21:05] Allan McLennan: Uh, a favorite one? No, not really. I really like the fellow, uh, from AI Realized. I got on his list, and what’s his name? Um, he did the keynote at the beginning.
[21:18] Christina Ellwood: Paul Baier of GAI Insights.
[21:21] Allan McLennan: Paul Baier. I, I have found Paul Baier’s, um... I wasn’t aware of it prior, but he’s much like me. Um, he’s kind of just figuring things out, and as he figures something out, he’s sharing it, you know? And, um, I found that that way versus just an editorial process to be more impactful for me, um, at this time. So if I, if I may, I’d like to, you know, give Paul a plug because Paul’s insight and understanding is as better than anyone else in the marketplace 'cause he’s living and being and breathing it. So I really appreciate Paul.
[22:00] Christina Ellwood: I do too. Um, I, uh, r- read his, uh, or the GAI Insights, um, daily email faithfully to, uh, to have them highlight for me the articles that are essential, um, important and optional for me to read about the, um, technology. I also attend, whenever I can, their, uh, learning labs, their meetup learning labs, uh, which they hold every Monday, um, which I also really enjoy. Um, and they of course do a, a lot of articles. They’ve got a number of articles in Harvard Business Review, and they post a lot on LinkedIn. So, um, yeah, I enjoy their content very much as well. Um, so thank you for that recommendation for our listeners.
[22:43] Allan McLennan: I’d, I’d, I’d, I’d al- also add, um, if you have the financial means to be able to subscribe to, is in Substack, and Substack has some very interesting, um, writers, uh, that write every day on this subject matter and that you can find. And if you’re in the media and entertainment industry, there’s one de facto one, it’s called Ankler, A-N-K-L-E-R, um, which is-- really does a good job of co- covering Hollywood and the issues that are facing us on a daily basis.
[23:20] Christina Ellwood: Well, thank you very much for that. Allan McLennan, founder and chief executive of PADEM Media Group, thank you for taking time to talk with me today on AI Realized.
[23:31] Allan McLennan: Thank you, Christina. I appreciate the opportunity and hope I was of some value.